holy crap transformers are expensive!

[NightshadeX]

I was pretty disappointed with Tarn as well. Very thin, very light. Maybe it's tall enough compared to other modern voyagers, but it feels like just stretching to make tall, kind of like Animated/NEST Lockdown figures.

Probably the biggest negative is no moving wheels of any kind. That felt like a pretty big slap in the face. I've been annoyed to see them missing on deluxes (Skullgrin) but a voyager, really a WTF moment.

Granted, Tarn looks really good from the front. The effort was there. But it's not quite a deluxe or a voyager.

Comparing early CHUG to current WFC/Legacy, I can see the improvement in mold and parts. There's a lot of emphasis on extra poseability now with ankle tilts and such. Definitely more parts compared to combiner wars. But I'm not a toy economist to know if that really "justifies" pushing deluxes into voyagers and voyagers into leaders.

Cyclonus is a perfect example of a modern voyager that still feels like a voyager. But there's not many of them.

[RNSrobot]

Originally Posted by delrue

Damn dude, these kind of sound like opinions and not something you should continually be presenting as facts. There is NO such thing as being objective. Your objective opinion is just your subjective view of what objectivity should be.

Thank you, absolutely.

Gotbot, "The figure isn't very good at all and never was" is an entirely subjective statement. There is no "rotton tomatoes" of a review aggregator but I would confidently say ss86 hot rod is a well-reviewed toy in the Tf fandom. Does he work for everyone? Nope. And that's fine! Not your cup of tea. Some folks really like blitzwing even if his reviews are mixed. Presenting your subjective opinion as "fact" is ... Silly. Calling hot rod an "embarassment" and... "Slap in the face" is your subjective opinion (one not shared by, I would confidently say, most). If you feel slapped in the face by a toy company that is a you problem

You are literally talking about five grams as a gotcha. "either you see that or bury your head in the sand"... Subjective as hell, man. Who died and made you arbiter of transformers? Your facts aren't the facts you think they are. I don't give a shit if people like tarn or not; my argument was solely refuting that he isn't a "Voyager" in quotes only because he is factually in line with Voyagers today and ten years ago.

Hasbro's price increases are profit grabs. You either make your peace with that, be selective about what you buy, wait for the best deal and risk missing out, or just exit the hobby. That's primarily what this thread is about.


"only someone who has not bothered to do analysis of cost value or maybe, I dunno, an addict or something," shitty ass comment, dude.

Like what you like, buy what you buy, don't buy whatever, but it doesn't need to be quantified with a bunch of exaggerated half-or-untruths.

[RNSrobot]

Originally Posted by NightshadeX

I was pretty disappointed with Tarn as well. Very thin, very light. Maybe it's tall enough compared to other modern voyagers, but it feels like just stretching to make tall, kind of like Animated/NEST Lockdown figures.

Probably the biggest negative is no moving wheels of any kind. That felt like a pretty big slap in the face. I've been annoyed to see them missing on deluxes (Skullgrin) but a voyager, really a WTF moment.

Granted, Tarn looks really good from the front. The effort was there. But it's not quite a deluxe or a voyager.

Comparing early CHUG to current WFC/Legacy, I can see the improvement in mold and parts. There's a lot of emphasis on extra poseability now with ankle tilts and such. Definitely more parts compared to combiner wars. But I'm not a toy economist to know if that really "justifies" pushing deluxes into voyagers and voyagers into leaders.

Cyclonus is a perfect example of a modern voyager that still feels like a voyager. But there's not many of them.

Jhiaxus? Inferno (either)? Wreck-gar? Dinobot?

[imfallenangel]

Not sure why this thread turned into a Tarn debate...

If it's a question of value /money, he's an ok figure, it has some very annoying flaws and far from perfect but still decent for what it is, but compared to other "older" voyagers (all of the Siege voyagers, the SS BB movies seekers, and others that you feel the difference in hand easily), he is a LOT weaker... the lack of tiny wheels is almost a joke and the worst I consider for this figure as we have a "tank" that we have to drag on the ground.

If anyone that's unbiased goes and compare it to just about every Siege voyagers for example and he does fall short quite a bit, but they have been lowering quality and the "omph" factor of every class bit by bit while increasing prices and many fans simply excuse it or turn the blind eye.

So yes, the figures are getting more expensive and we are getting less as figures are shrinking little by little, either in size, content, more gaps, lower quality, etc. (believe it of not, there's been more issues in quality with the later figures than before... Siege barely had any, but now it's a gamble for each new figures of late... I know that out of every Legacy figure I got, only one was not loose as hell right out of the box)

Jiaxus is a bit better I find, but again, it does show how, as one example, the corners getting cut, which all result with figures that could be amazing being taken down to decent/good but many requiring 3rd party kits to complete them and fix what Hasbro cut, at least for what can be done with the mold.

It's like taking the Earthsparks figures for another example... cheaper plastic, lots of gaps and such, meant to be the simpler line targeting children, but yet, just as expensive as the mainline.

And for the argument for "older" figures such as the Generation ones, holding some older figures that would be close than half the price (including inflation), and had less gaps, with articulation being very similar (considering balljoints for feet provided more than just tilt), many with wrist rotation (something that's lacking in many new figures), with fairly decent accessories (something that it truly lacking now), you can argue all day about how better the newer figures are, but aside some fine lining, modern esthetics and such, older figures are regarded as "old and crap" by those that suffer from newitist and completely disillusioned by the "newer and shiny" version, which ends up being a rinse and repeat scenario whenever a new version arrives.

The trouble is that I've noticed that even older figures have raised in price lately as many caught on that many people have realized that the older figures have value and now sellers of such have been bumping the price more and more. With COVID making many people turn to being "collectors", the market changed dramatically, but now I've also seen many that the fad bubble has burst and such "collectors" are now selling off their temporary collections, with many hoping to cash in their "investment", which has added to the price increases. And with all this, Hasbro hasn't been blind to any of it and in part is why the price increased as they did... it's not just higher shipping and manufacturing costs... it's that their research has proved that the collector's market is strong enough (at least has been for a while now) to do what they did to increase their profit margins.

Then you have those that excuses, even defend Hasbro, while it's racking in billions in profit at every quarterly.

But in the end, it's a sad scenario as these are supposed to be toy lines for children, which have been moved over to the "collectors" mentality more and more, and it's a case that if you want to build a collection, you have to regard these as meant to be targeting the adult fans and prices to milk them, long gone are the days that such toys were child oriented (unless you go with the rescue bots and similar lines), and the prices are targeting such adults. As far as what are the options, there are a lot of 3rd and 4th party stuff out there, with KOs and other lines that are about the same price, some cheaper, with the higher end stuff being much higher, but then... I look at the leader class that's hitting the 100$ range, and I've purchased many 3rd parties that were around the same price range that ended up being much better in quality, more accessories, etc., so it's something that should be considered for anyone that's wanting better value/money. Hell, one example is any Jinboa titan combiner is a massive bargain compared to any Hasbro combiner, with excellent plastic, large figures that are very detailed, accessories, etc. So one has to shop around, look for bargains and selection, etc.

And as far as the topic of Hasbro figures, with the distribution being what it is, any figures that are a must-have, you get it when you can, via pre-order or if you see it as so many are near impossible to get and makes many a gamble. The sales and such, those are for the "maybe" figures... but it comes downs to setting goals as if you have a limited budget, it's crazy how fast it adds up.

[Marcotron]

I don't get how Toysrus charges $44.99 for the BB deluxes. It's extortion.
$45 for a Cliffjumper, a small deluxe, because they painted the windows blue, instead of clear. I don't care what it looks like, or how screen accurate it is, it's not worth it.
Even IF it goes on sale, it's still a ripoff.
I literally got a 3rd party Ace Toys Cliffjumper for about that price, and that one has Masterpiece inspired engineering.

And Terrorsaur. I got the BB version on sale (I think it went down to $34), and thought it would be my only chance to buy one. So I did. Because I couldn't fathom spending $60 or more on the show accurate coloured Golden Disk version.
Also, not impressed by the figure itself, it's weak, floppy, barely transforms, isn't fun to transform, and the bird mode looks like a robot just squatting. I passed on Airrazor for the same reasons. My Airrazor is the Transmetal version, which, even with floppy legs, is still more fun to play with. I let my kids play with that toy, because I didn't spend a fortune on it, and I know I could probably find another one for not a small fortune if they break it.

[Robimus]

Please keep in mind that someone not liking, or conversly loving a toy is not a personal attack.

We should be able to have these conversations in a polite manner.

Let's keep that in mind going forward.

Thanks.

[Skorpulator]

Originally Posted by Marcotron

I don't get how Toysrus charges $44.99 for the BB deluxes. It's extortion.

Cracktortion.

[NightshadeX]

Originally Posted by RNSrobot

Jhiaxus? Inferno (either)? Wreck-gar? Dinobot?

It wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list Cyclonus just jumps out as like an awesome one.

If you want my opinions:

Leaving out Wreck-Gar was definitely not fair by me. He's huge, meaty, definitely a good one at Cyclonus level.

I also love Jhiaxus and Dinobot and they feel somewhat close to what my tactile memory would say is a "voyager". They are awesome toys, but that's a different issue.

Inferno I haven't played with enough to really give a solid opinion.

[Skorpulator]

Older Voyagers (especially the movie ones) were far more interesting and intricate imo. I don't care much if at all for extreme articulation. Give me a challenge, not a GI Joe.

[alternatorfan]

Originally Posted by NightshadeX

I was pretty disappointed with Tarn as well. Very thin, very light. Maybe it's tall enough compared to other modern voyagers, but it feels like just stretching to make tall, kind of like Animated/NEST Lockdown figures.

Probably the biggest negative is no moving wheels of any kind. That felt like a pretty big slap in the face. I've been annoyed to see them missing on deluxes (Skullgrin) but a voyager, really a WTF moment.

Granted, Tarn looks really good from the front. The effort was there. But it's not quite a deluxe or a voyager.

Comparing early CHUG to current WFC/Legacy, I can see the improvement in mold and parts. There's a lot of emphasis on extra poseability now with ankle tilts and such. Definitely more parts compared to combiner wars. But I'm not a toy economist to know if that really "justifies" pushing deluxes into voyagers and voyagers into leaders.

Cyclonus is a perfect example of a modern voyager that still feels like a voyager. But there's not many of them.

I agree tarn is a fail.
Flat no beefyness.