!!!SPOILERS - TF4 AOE Movie Discussion - SPOILERS!!!

[MULTIPLEX]

Originally Posted by xueyue2

You probably don't understand 50% of the movie then.
Honestly, if I'm one of the autobots, I would be really mad at Optimus Primes' stupidity ... because of his naive idea "don't harm human", the rest autobots were hunted down like deers.

I don't think AOE Optimus Prime deserved to be a leader anymore. Maybe he learned something in the AOE movie period, but because of the damage he caused to autobots, he should be exiled.

Haha yah I suck at understanding movie plots. My wife always tells me I miss the obvious. Thats why I prefer watching TV and movies with subtitles. I recall the hunting down bit now and the Autobots were in hiding. Dammit, I just wanted to hear Grimlock say something, anything. SPEAK!

[Janitor]

Happy Monday everyone! I saw AoE in IMAX 3D with my wife on Saturday night, here are my thoughts **WARNING: EXTREMELY LONG, NERD RAGE-Y/WALL OF TEXT POST AHEAD!!**

First: the Positives
-Marky Mark…I guess. Likeable star, adequate action hero. Does his best with what he’s given
-Bay actually listened to many of the past complaints. We got: no military, less objectification of women, only one scene with a shouting black woman, so…thank you?
-if you thought DOTM took a lot of cues from G1, check out what AoE lifted from Animated, which I certainly did appreciate:

• Lockdown was certifiably baddass, although he doesn't quite measure up to Lance Henriksen’s portrayal (now that dude was cold-blooded).
• …who takes out Ratchet. Poor, poor Ratchet…
• also: Megaton’s head secretly running the show from behind the scenes of a lab, playing the scientist(s) who think they’re getting new technology out of the situation but are really just helping to rebuild him

-didn’t mind the new band of Autobots, I even let the whole “to sell toys” thing slide on this one

Negatives <deep breath>
Sorry, but my brain could not stop nit-picking. Constantly. Like, every 15 seconds I always had a problem with something onscreen.
-am I watching Prometheus? And this is how many times now that something ties Cybertron and Earth’s past (Movie 1: Megatron crash lands on Earth. ROTF: Pyramids something something. DOTM: Sentinel Prime crashes on our moon)? Alright, I get this could be a “bigger picture” thing, involving the Quintissons or something. But as you can see I’m not the biggest fan of the constant retcons.
-as the CIA’s searching for Optimus Prime inside the barn using flashlights, one of the agent’s still wearing his sunglasses. Let me repeat: USING FLASHLIGHTS. STILL WEARING HIS SUNGLASSES.
-this is not the Optimus Prime we remember, know, and love. I get that the Autobots were betrayed by the humans, but the non-stop kill talk? Come on!
-did they cast an Irish boyfriend just so Wahlberg can call him “lucky charms”?! Bay’s rationale was probably “Hey, it’s not racist if I made an actor of Irish descent say it!” I’m not gonna dwell on this as I don’t really think it’s that big of a deal, simply a thought given Bay’s history
-Autobots are on the run and in hiding, so what do they do? Choose the flashiest, most attention grabbing models of cars in the brightest colours possible. Prime himself goes back to his old colours + flame decals!! WTF??
-stupid damsel in distress makes stupid decisions. From the Prime vs Galvatron fight up to Lockdown snagging his bounty (Prime’s body) + SUV: RUN AWAY STUPID GIRL! RUN! ANYWHERE! IN LITERALLY ANY DIRECTION!!!
-Independence Day ripoff? Or…*cough* “homage”?
-in Chicago: when the CIA picks up the Seed via helicopter…why is Lockdown’s spaceship still so easily accessible by the Autobots on the ground? Isn’t the point of taking a choppa up there because then no one else can get on??
-our human characters getting bounced around like it’s nothing, can jump out of car going at highway speeds unscathed, and able to withstand the crazy G-forces when Drift/Bee are flying in that jet and caught in a aerial dogfight
-the weapon Marky Mark picks up (sized rather conveniently for humans to handle) didn’t have ANY recoil when fired?
-GAH! The blatant product placement!!! Bud Light! Victoria’s Secret! Hollywood’s never been subtle with their big-budget summer films, but you really don’t need to HOLD the shot of Bud Light bottles for that long before Marky Mark cracks into one
-so these new Deceptions don’t really transform, as much as they shapeshift like X-Men’s Mystique?
-did they just drive (and get chased) from Beijing to Hong Kong…OVERNIGHT!!! HOW COME NOBODY ELSE NOTICED THIS?!?!? BLARHGGHASDFJKL;
-WHO IN HONG KONG PLAYS AMERICAN FOOTBALL??? I can’t even begin to tell you how unlikely that is. If you’re from Hong Kong and play American football (over “soccer”) let me know who you are, as you’re truly one-of-a-kind.
-Lockdown’s spaceship magnet thingy felt like a variation of Zod’s “world engine” from Man of Steel. I really didn’t get the point of that who scene, was it suppose to suck up the Seed (which some humans were able to hold down anyways, giant robots however don’t stand a chance)
-DINOBOTS!! W00T! They’ve always been fan favorites, and from all those posters and trailers they look amazing!!
via Imgflip Meme Maker
-“Dinobots, you are now free.” [or something to that effect]. To do what exactly, frolic about Hong Kong and stomp on any innocent humans?!?
-Frank Welker voice: “I’ll get you next time Gadget, err… I mean Optimus! Next time!!”
-yeah, that was one long-ass movie

*and more, MUCH more! But I’m tired of typing and it’s getting late.

Not sure who to blame for the framing at the show I attended (Scotiabank Theatre, Toronto), but either the filmmakers or the theatre itself screwed this up royally. A lot of shots jumped between standard widescreen and IMAX during a single scene and shit got distracting. Example:
Marky Mark at his house (widescreen)
cut to Black Real Estate Agent Lady barges in (full IMAX)
cut to MM shouting at BREAL (widescreen)
cut to BREAL shouting back at MM (full IMAX)
Whereas with say, The Dark Knight, an entire scene would be in IMAX (ie. the opening bank heist) but then switch back to widescreen after the scene was over.
And every once in a while the quality of a shot looked downright atrocious. I’m talking “bootleg camcorder quality”, no exaggeration.

The marketing itself: felt like a half-assed viral attempt at replicating District 9 with their “report an alien” stuff

Other observations (not necessarily positive nor negative)
-Dr. Fraser McCoy: cartoonishly evil, didn’t love or hate him. The character’s death was completely lame though.
-Jeve Stobs: I think Stanley Tucci is fantastic in the Hunger Games series. Here he was on the meh side.
-while I’m glad they tried to give Hound more screen time/lines, I found the part where he was just blasting away and spouting off endless one-liners completely grating. Bonus points for John Goodman though

Now before anyone replies, a few (common) items I'd like to address:
-To answer all those typical "What did you expect? This isn't Citizen Kane/Godfather/random-highly-acclaimed-classic-film, it's a sci-fi film about transforming robots!" straw man arguments we see EVERY SINGLE TIME a Bay-formers (or any genre) film hits: please know there is such a thing as a GOOD Transformer film, just like how there are good and bad films of ANY subject matter. Otherwise your approach makes absolutely zero sense. By your logic you could defend Batman & Robin with “What do you expect? It’s a comic book film about a millionaire dressed as bat who fights crime!”
Back to TFs: with the 2007 Bay film, a lot of fans (myself included) thought it was really well done. The action was tight, story was solid, and humans were tolerable (and for the most part, necessary) while all the things we loathe about Bay were kept to a reasonable/acceptable level: his military boner, constant objectification of women, obnoxious and loud black caricatures. Thus the movie rarely suffered because of it. With ROTF/DOTM, Bay went back to doing all his usual crap.
-“Eff the critics! AoE made a kajillion $$$ so who cares?!” While studio execs may feel otherwise, the amount of money a movie makes should not matter and is not a direct reflection of the film’s quality/your personal enjoyment of a film. FYI the Twilight series made a buttload of money too.
-“Y’all hate Michael Bay because you think it’s cool! Or just for the sake of it” No, I think I’ve been pretty fair to Bay. The Rock is still one of my favorite action movies of all-time, but I hated Armageddon, Bad Boys, ROTF, AoE… Plus everyone should be able to voice their opinions on whether or not they enjoyed the works a filmmaker without being branded as a “hater”.

The bottom line is I don’t care if you genuinely enjoyed what is considered a terrible film, more power to you. But these same old arguments that get tossed around are downright stupid.
Remember you can still be a Transformer fan while also being critical. I love G1, but will be the first to fully admit how awful episodes like Carnage in C-Minor are.

Sidenote: I just introduced my wife to G1, and even as a complete TF noob she got a better understanding/enjoyment from the two Dinobot episodes she watched (SOS Dinobots and War of the Dinobots) than what AoE gave us.

Final score - 3/10

For reference:
Transformers (2007) - 9/10
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - 2/10
Transformers: Dark of the Moon - 6.5/10
Transformers: The Movie (1986) - 11/10

[brr-icy]

not as bad as rotf, still some stereotyping and such, but whatever. if i wanted a theatrical masterpiece i wouldn't watch a bay flick anyways

[Cerebros]

I sincerely don't understand the consistent hate for this film, in fact I found it to be thoroughly entertaining, and definitely better than the previous two installments. I think some of you need to pull your thongs up out of your asses, and take it for what it is, a movie.... NOT real life.

Lastly, for those of you that are seriously criticizing this film based upon inaccuracies and a horrible storyline, let me refresh your memory, Generation 1, was exactly the same, yet you all constantly jerk off to anything remotely Generation 1. lol

[Sludge2007]

Originally Posted by Cerebros

Lastly, for those of you that are seriously criticizing this film based upon inaccuracies and a horrible storyline, let me refresh your memory, Generation 1, was exactly the same, yet you all constantly jerk off to anything remotely Generation 1. lol

Bahaha, awesome!

[CobraCommander]

Originally Posted by positivelyken

I'm not sure why people had such a problem with the way the artificial Transformers "blockformed" from one mode to another. Natural Cybertronians have a mechanical protoform (robot mode) which has the ability, through manipulation of the intricate parts it is made of, to take on an alternate mode. The protoform is still the core of a Cybertronian being. The artificial Transformers coming out of the KSI factory are made of inanimate Transformium programmed to assume any desired shape. The engineers did not design a protoform with a Cybertronian's natural shapeshifting ability; they simply programmed the elemental metal to assume a robot shape or a vehicle shape as required. To change modes, it would just disassemble and reassemble. This was demonstrated at the KSI lab where a ball of Transformium changed into a speaker, a handgun, a My Little Pony, and a machine gun without "transforming" like Cybertronians do.

Whether or not this was intended as a way to "cheap out" on CGI, it still works, and very much differentiates real Transformers from the knockoffs.

Why do you suppose the human created bots look like they are formed from the cars they resemble? I mean if you can shapeshift a pony into a gun, why bother with a bot mode that is aesthetically similar to the car you are re-forming. Why not shapeshift into simple protoform without car door wings, car hood, less bright colour, etc? Or better yet, just re-form into a sphere covered with a shit-ton of guns and fire away!

My guess, half-way through the movie production they were falling behind in the CGI dept. and had to make some animation cuts and went with the lame digi-cube effect.

[Robimus]

I loved the film - very G1 cartoon, combined with Jackie Chan, John Woo, Transformers Animated(the Megatron head & Lockdown), so on.

Yeah there are plot holes - it doesn't matter in the least. The film accomplishes a lot and sets up the universe to continue strongly. I loved the whole plot of Megatron literally mind f*******g human robotics company to his own end. It was a brilliant way to bring back his character.

I've heard people say that the "Creators" came and wiped out the dinosaurs(it is hinted at in the film, but the character POV to me is an error). I think that was Lockdown(or someone of the like) hunting down the Dinobots, with him only flash metalling part of the world(the part they uncover at the start.)

That explains the archaeologist uncovering the Grimlock looking metal fossil, and why the Dinobots would have an interest in staying on earth(because they were already there )

Yeah, it is just me fan filling in the story, but thats what I'm going with

Also I would have done Stinger in green and given him a different name.

Anyway, highly entertaining film all the way around. Bring on number 5!

[ConvoyGTR]

Originally Posted by Scrapper6

My, potentially flawed understanding of how Megatron has worked in this series, leads me to suspect that while he may no longer possess an actual spark, he still retains the ability to act based on emotions and stuff.

Movie one establishes that the AllSpark is pretty damn powerful. I always suspected that, much like Animated Starscream, when Megatron was infused with all of it's energy directly into his spark chamber his entire body was infused with that energy.

Unfortunately it left him a dormant lifeless shell as he couldn't handle that kind of energy. When Scalpel and the Constructicons brought him the shard of the AllSpark it jumpstarted him awake again, similar to how Starscream was.

The effects of the patch job done by Scalpel weren't good enough to maintain a sparkless shell though, so after suffering damages to a large extent he can no longer self-regenerate as other Transformers do because he lacks the spark.

In DotM this is evident by the state he was in and how less active he became, he needed something completely new.

Enter AoE, Megatron's essence may be gone, but because of the AllSpark he is still fully aware, even as just a head. So he manipulates events (again like in Animated) in order to grant him a brand new body. Where Galvatron comes in, his essence is gone, but his mind is fully intact and able to react just as if he still had a spark.

What this all means for that large orange hole thing, that is probably just the way the designers wanted it, to signify a lack of spark, but also because it looks cool. (Like that one geeky scientist said when they unveiled his robot form.)

It could also be an attempt at mimicking G1's orange cannon, perhaps in the next movie he'll turn his chest into a giant gun or something, who knows.

That makes a lot of sense, thanks! It was the same severed head scenario in Animated and I didn't question anything in that, but in this movie it stood out more for me and needed some insight.

[Robimus]

Originally Posted by RageD

Or maybe people just didn't like it. 17% on rotten tomatoes. My question is for the folks giving this 8/10 or 9/10 what does an actual good movie get? Say wolf of wall street, the godfather, etc? Or is this just a bay scale? Because compared to ROTF AOE is a masterpiece.

Tonight Rotten Tomatoes shows that 60% of the audience enjoyed the film - the 16% is the film critics scores - folks of the same ilk that gave Star Wars terrible reviews in 1977.

As it gets exposed to a larger audience I bet that "liked" number will only rise.

For me The Godfather gets a ten out of ten - that said I can't watch it the way I watch Transformers, I can't watch it with my kid - it has next to limited replay value. I have seen the Godfather several times in my life but I've seen Transformers far more.

When I want to feel good and have fun I can always plug it into the DVD player and just relax. Films like the Godfather or 12 Years a Slave aren't meant to deliver in that same way.

I'd say there definitely is a different scale for differing movie genres.

[RageD]

Originally Posted by Robimus

Tonight Rotten Tomatoes shows that 60% of the audience enjoyed the film - the 16% is the film critics scores - folks of the same ilk that gave Star Wars terrible reviews in 1977.

As it gets exposed to a larger audience I bet that "liked" number will only rise.

For me The Godfather gets a ten out of ten - that said I can't watch it the way I watch Transformers, I can't watch it with my kid - it has next to limited replay value. I have seen the Godfather several times in my life but I've seen Transformers far more.

When I want to feel good and have fun I can always plug it into the DVD player and just relax. Films like the Godfather or 12 Years a Slave aren't meant to deliver in that same way.

I'd say there definitely is a different scale for differing movie genres.

I felt the need to chime in again and thank you for a well written, and respectful post that doesn't disrespect someone else's opinion but instead offers a differing view in a non-combative, respectful way.