The Avengers Movie Thread

[pud333]

I would love to see a Justice League movie, since I am a huge DC fan, and really don't care about Marvel outside of the X-men, but let's be real: They'd probably just rush a JL movie and screw it up.

The thing about Marvel is they get props for really doing the right things with the majority of their properties. I think Iron Man 1 and 2 were the shittiest comic book movies ever, but apparently I am in the minority. People really liked them. The thing about The Avengers is Marvel earned the box office. If The Avengers was just released on its own, I doubt it would have done as well as it did, but Marvel had a string of successful movies first.

The DC properties keep getting messed up. Catwoman? Barf. Jonah who? The 10 minute animated short was far superior. Green lantern - sorry, but Hal Jordan basically fought flying poo. Superman Returns was just a retread of the Reeves films, only not done as well. The only thing that has done well recently is the Batman films (and Watchmen), which I regard as the pinacle of comic book movies. If we want to debate comics with subtance, The Avengers was hella fun, but Nolan's Batverse has real substance.

Also, lol at those that think no one cares about Superman. EVERYONE knows Superman. Everyone. Shit, even my mom knows Superman, and she's a 65 year old woman born in South Korea. Superman has had a consistant presence for the past couple decades in movies and on TV. The problem is the last Superman movie was done wrong. I enjoyed it as a DC fan, but I understand there were major shortcomings. I have high hopes for the new Superman. Of all the superheroes that deserve an epic trilogy, it's Superman. I hope they do it right. I know the last film they tried to give him depth with a son, but that was stupid. They should focus on him being the last son of Krypton. He's an alien to a world that he protects with his life. There's plenty of depth to be explored there without falling on gimics. I also want to see Superman smash stuff. The boy scout thing is played out. If I were the last one of my race, I'd be a bit miffed that I got orphaned like that, you know?

DC has done a fantastic job with their tv shows and direct to DVD releases. Their TV shows are WAY better than the Marvel ones. I just wish they could do the same for their live action films.

I'll end my rant with this: The main reason The Avengers was so freaking awesome, was because of Joss Whedon. They happen to get the perfect director for it. When I watched it, I thought, "This is a whedon film for sure." In another director's hands, I doubt it would have been near as good. If they know what's good for them, they will pay Whedon whatever he wants to keep him as long as they can.

[Scrapper6]

Originally Posted by Sun Swipe Prime

If nobody is interested in Superman then why has he consistently had a live TV presence pretty much the last three decades: Smalliville, Lois and Clark, Superboy? This is not even counting the animated shows and movies. If there's no interest then there's no money to be made, then why are Superman shows consistently being produced?

Before this recent string of Avengers tie-in movies. Who knew who Ironman was or Black Widow or Nick Fury, Thor, Captain America, The Hulk etc? Pretty much nobody outside of the comic nerd. The most famous of those was probably the Hulk because of the 70's tv show. And who outside of the comic nerd wanted movies made with them? Nobody.

Who cared about X-men before they made a good movie? Again nobody but the nerd. But once they made a bad one, nobody cared again. Then a good movie came out and people cared again.

Which IMHO shows is this. Make a good movie and they will come. Green Lantern was a shite movie that's why it failed, not because nobody cared about Green Lantern.

DC has some of the most recognizable Superheroes in all of pop culture and they're coming up short on all but one, Batman.

I'm sorry, consistently? Consistently means no gaps or breaks in between productions, correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Lois and Clark off the air a good long while before Smallville even started?

Granted Superman may be a much more in-demand character than the likes of Flash, GL and Wonder Woman, but I am almost certain after that last fiasco DC couldn't make audiences interested in another GL film even if they focused it on the alien chick members of the corps and made it into a Skin Bearing, 18A sauce fest full of girl-on-girl alien lovemaking.

They may be big when it comes to Pop Culture, but if you walk up to anyong and ask them who The Flash is or what his main Nemesis is, well you're not going to get a favorable response.

[pud333]

Movies:

Superman - 1978
Superman II - 1980
Superman III - 1983
Superman IV - 1987
Superman Returns - 2006
Superman: Man of Steel - 2013.

TV:

Superboy - 1988-1992
Lois and Clark - 1993-1997
Smallville - 2001-2011

Animated:

The New Adventures of Superman - 1966-1969.
Superfriends - 1973-1986
Superman - 1996-2000
Justice League - 2001-2006

Animated Movies:

Superman: Doomsday - 2007
Justice League: New Frontier - 2008
Superman/Batman: Public Enemies - 2009
Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths - 2010
Superman/Batman: Apocalypse - 2010
All-Star Superman - 2011
Justice League: Doom - 2012
Superman vs The Elite - 2012

That's pretty damned consistent if you ask me. The only other comic book character that has probably been as consistantly in TV and movie pop culture as Superman in the last 30-40 years is probably Batman. (I'm not going to go list those, haha). This list doesn't even include all the video games or the old 1950's radio shows or the plays done about him, etc. (basically anything outside of comics). I challenge anyone to find a Marvel character as deeply rooted and embedded into pop culture as Superman. Sorry, I'm just a huge Superman mark, if you couldn't tell. (sikkbones points out Spider-man below. Yeah, totally overlooked him in my excitement. I love Spidy too. He has been pretty consistent too.)

That said, DC needs to do a way better job in promoting the other heroes. I just hope they take their time and do it right. I would love a great Flash film.

Anyway, back on topic: THE HULK WAS AWESOME! Favorite part was when he suckerpunched Thor.

[sikkbones]

Originally Posted by pud333

That's pretty damned consistent if you ask me. The only other comic book character that has probably been as consistantly in TV and movie pop culture as Superman in the last 30-40 years is probably Batman. (I'm not going to go list those, haha). This list doesn't even include all the video games or the old 1950's radio shows or the plays done about him, etc. (basically anything outside of comics). I challenge anyone to find a Marvel character as deeply rooted and embedded into pop culture as Superman. Sorry, I'm just a huge Superman mark, if you couldn't tell.

yeah, this guy.....
is just chopped liver... completely.

[pud333]

Ha! forgot Spidey in my excitement. My bad. He's probably Marvel's #1 recognizable character.

[Scrapper6]

Originally Posted by pud333

Ha! forgot Spidey in my excitement. My bad. He's probably Marvel's #1 recognizable character.

Individuals yes, but I'd wager the X-Men are the most well known team. Considering they had that special X-Men and Kitty Pryde thing in the 80's, the 90's cartoon, the Evolution cartoon, Wolverine and the X-Men, five feature length films (Counting Wolverine Origins) and sure they may not be as numerous as others, but what they lack in quantity they make up for in quality. (One or two films aside)

[pud333]

Yeah, I'd buy that the X-men are the best well known team thanks to the movies. If the Avengers keeps going like this, they'll probably eclipse the X-men though.

[Sun Swipe Prime]

Originally Posted by Scrapper6

I'm sorry, consistently? Consistently means no gaps or breaks in between productions, correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Lois and Clark off the air a good long while before Smallville even started?

Lets not split hairs now. I said consistent for the last three decades meaning each decade, one after the other, in a consistent string, had a Superman TV show.

Originally Posted by Scrapper6

Granted Superman may be a much more in-demand character than the likes of Flash, GL and Wonder Woman, but I am almost certain after that last fiasco DC couldn't make audiences interested in another GL film even if they focused it on the alien chick members of the corps and made it into a Skin Bearing, 18A sauce fest full of girl-on-girl alien lovemaking.

If Ghost Rider, and Hulk can get a sequels, I'm sure GL has at least a long shot at it.

Also GL grossed almost 220 million dollars vs its 200 million dollar budget. Now that's probably still a loss after advertising, and having to split money with the theatres etc., but it's also before DVD sales and stuff. 220 million in ticket sales means a lot of people still went to see it. Which means if the movie had been any good it would have easily made money.

Originally Posted by Scrapper6

They may be big when it comes to Pop Culture, but if you walk up to anyong and ask them who The Flash is or what his main Nemesis is, well you're not going to get a favorable response.

Possibly a few years ago. But I'd argue that now the general answer would be "The Flash is the fast running character Sheldon Cooper dresses up as on Halloween" If you don't know, Sheldon Cooper is a character on one of the biggest shows on TV right now, The Big Bang Theory. My point being is maybe they don't know who The Flash's nemesis is, but I'm sure many many know who The Flash is, again because of pop culture.

[pud333]

Originally Posted by Sun Swipe Prime

Possibly a few years ago. But I'd argue that now the general answer would be "The Flash is the fast running character Sheldon Cooper dresses up as on Halloween" If you don't know, Sheldon Cooper is a character on one of the biggest shows on TV right now, The Big Bang Theory. My point being is maybe they don't know who The Flash's nemesis is, but I'm sure many many know who The Flash is, again because of pop culture.

Speaking of nemesis, I wonder how many people could name Iron Man's or Captain America's nemesis prior to seeing the movies? I think in general most casuals don't know many bad guys beyond a few iconic ones.

I really hope GL gets another shot. That first one wasn't very good.

[Quantum]

Originally Posted by Scrapper6

And there is where we have the problem. The 'Dead Wrong' comment was directed towards his comment about how everyone wants to see a movie based on Superman or The Flash or Insert DC Character Name Here. The only people who Really want to see a film based on their favorite DC hero are DC Comic Book nerds, I mean Green Lantern's film sales and box office reciets can attest to that.

I never said he was wrong about the Marvel stuff, I just don't see them as being that hated as everyone seems to claim. Maybe because I don't frequent those sites you mentioned, and also, how do we know that the people panning it on those sites aren't comic book readers/fans?

Re-read my comment: nowhere did I say everyone wants to see it, I said no one wanting to was off the mark. I said no one wants to see a bad DC movie, but there are a lot of fans who would love to see a good DC movie.

As for the world changing events, Marvel is just as guilty as DC for doing that in the books. See House of M, Fear Itself, Civil War, the current Avengers Vs. X-Men, etc.

The point here is that people will see a good super-hero movie, and DC has a lot of fans. DC just happens to have made a lot of bad movies about characters that many people like and haven't hit the formula yet as Marvel has.

And like pud said, Joss Whedon is a HUGE reason Avengers is so successful. That's what I meant about hiring good directors.

You also come off as someone who hasn't read much DC. The characters very much have personal demons to overcome and struggles and come from interesting places. Hal may not be the most interesting character, but his story was not done justice in the film.

And let me add that I think they did a terrible job with the GL movie, but had they done it right, it could have been awesome. It also strikes me that if, as you said, many people like the DCAU, they would, as fans of the characters, like to see live-action DC movies done as well as the last few Marvel films.