The Avengers Movie Thread

[Quantum]

If DC treated their live-action properties as well as their animated films, things would be different. As a whole, I prefer DC comics as well as the Animated features over Marvel. Marvel has, however, figured out the format for successful live-action super-hero movies. DC and WB should really be taking notes and following suit cause Avengers is the best movie I have seen in years.

And people need to remember that while Avengers is the best super-hero film out there, it took a looong time for Marvel to figure it out. Let's not forget about all three Fantastic Four films, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Punisher, Electra (although I did enjoy that one), The Hulk and Spider-man 3. Those were all pretty terrible.

DC/WB needs to use The Man Of Steel as their starting point of the character build-up that Marvel has done over the last few years. They also need to approve scripts based on the books and stay true to those books. it's the comics we love, and the comics I know I want to see on screen. Hiring directors who are already passionate about the characters would help immensely as well.

DC characters have a huge following and a longer history than Marvel. Saying no one wants to see movies about those characters is pretty off the mark in my opinion. It is true, however, that no one wants to see a bad movie about those characters. Once DC/WB figure it out, I think that we DC fans (as well as those who know nothing about them) are in for a real treat. A Flash movie, done the right way, would be sooooooo bad-ass!

[Scrapper6]

Originally Posted by Quantum

If DC treated their live-action properties as well as their animated films, things would be different. As a whole, I prefer DC comics as well as the Animated features over Marvel. Marvel has, however, figured out the format for successful live-action super-hero movies. DC and WB should really be taking notes and following suit cause Avengers is the best movie I have seen in years.

And people need to remember that while Avengers is the best super-hero film out there, it took a looong time for Marvel to figure it out. Let's not forget about all three Fantastic Four films, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Punisher, Electra (although I did enjoy that one), The Hulk and Spider-man 3. Those were all pretty terrible.

DC/WB needs to use The Man Of Steel as their starting point of the character build-up that Marvel has done over the last few years. They also need to approve scripts based on the books and stay true to those books. it's the comics we love, and the comics I know I want to see on screen. Hiring directors who are already passionate about the characters would help immensely as well.

DC characters have a huge following and a longer history than Marvel. Saying no one wants to see movies about those characters is pretty off the mark in my opinion. It is true, however, that no one wants to see a bad movie about those characters. Once DC/WB figure it out, I think that we DC fans (as well as those who know nothing about them) are in for a real treat. A Flash movie, done the right way, would be sooooooo bad-ass!

I'm sorry, but you're just dead wrong, none of the people in the general public care enough about Superman or The Flash or Green Lantern to want to see a movie about them.

It might have been the case in the past, but todays modern audiences who are not die-hard comic book readers could care less about the DC Super Heroes.

The Marvel Heroes have huge staying power in a live-action format because Marvel have been taking their time and working out the kinks. Personally I didn't see anything truly wrong with the films you listed, sure they weren't on the level that the Marvel Movieverse is building now, but they aren't completely useless or box offic flops. Not like Green Lantern seemed to be.

I watched Green Lantern, and while the film was interesting, it just couldn't really ignite any passion for the character in me the way Marvels films have. Hell, I sat through the entire film expecting some kind of bonus scene like most Marvel films, what I got was a stupid add telling me to go buy Green Lantern comics and graphic novels. BS DC, that isn't the type of thing I want to sit through ten minutes of credits for, at least the scene at the end of Avengers' credits was funny and plot relevant.

DC's biggest problem is that their characters, while super heroic, are just far too one-dimensional to ever translate well into live action. Green Lantern's biggest claim to fame, he's a glorified space cop with a super powerful thought controlled ring that lets him use green energy.

He isn't a multi-billonaire who built himself a lair under his mansion and fights crime in the dark and gritty mean streets of Gotham. He's not a victim of radioactive spider bite and he isn't a soldier trained and then made into a super Nazi fighting weapon.

I have always loved Batman because he really is the best DC has to offer. Superman has no true enemies that can stand against him, his greatest nemesis is an ordinary business man with delusions of grandeur.

And then there's the constant rebooting and infinite crisis stuff that rips apart the DC comics continuity for the sake of erasing the history of the characters that don't fit in with todays modern reader. OR to try and erase the clutter of too many writers introducing too many ideas that eventually lead nowhere.

If DC got their comic book universe in proper order and stopped trying to wipe it out of existence every so often to start fresh they might actually have some idea of how to properly translate their stories into Live-Action.

As it stands, the best interpretation of DC still to this day is the DCAU, and why is that? Surprise, surprise, it's all one continuity, it started off with Batman The Animated Series and it didn't try to erase itself from existence in favor of something better.

Young Justice is a good new series and one I've enjoyed for a time, but it is so difficult to catch the latest episodes on Teletoon that I've fallen behind with it due to airing oddities.

In the immortal words of the comic book letters page, when it comes to live-action super heroes in theatres, Make Mine Marvel.

[Darth Cylon]

WATCHMEN was an ambitious project, but noone other than the hard core fans would understand the story. In retrospect, while I enjoyed the movie, I'd rather see they spent the movie on making a high budget 12-part series on HBO or something.

[Nightscrabbler]

In order for a Justice League movie to work, they really need to make a good Flash movie first. You can see in Avengers how Iron Man brought levity to every situation, which really helps bring the team together. It allows you to accept the craziness of a green monster and a Norse God in our world. It's not like you can drop Kal-El right into Nolan's Gotham and expect Christian Bale to be the liaison. You need a character who can effectively recognize that craziness so that the audience can more easily make the leap too. With the Nolan trilogy concluding, they have to hope that the next Superman film can be almost as good. It doesn't seem like they're planning to put in the threads needed for Justice League now, and that's okay, I don't think it's necessary to use the same formula. But when Superman finally does meet Batman and then you have Wonder Woman and Green Lantern, it'll be important for at least one character to tone down the intensity.

[Nightscrabbler]

Originally Posted by Scrapper6

I'm sorry, but you're just dead wrong, none of the people in the general public care enough about Superman or The Flash or Green Lantern to want to see a movie about them.

It might have been the case in the past, but todays modern audiences who are not die-hard comic book readers could care less about the DC Super Heroes.

The Marvel Heroes have huge staying power in a live-action format because Marvel have been taking their time and working out the kinks. Personally I didn't see anything truly wrong with the films you listed, sure they weren't on the level that the Marvel Movieverse is building now, but they aren't completely useless or box offic flops. Not like Green Lantern seemed to be.

I watched Green Lantern, and while the film was interesting, it just couldn't really ignite any passion for the character in me the way Marvels films have. Hell, I sat through the entire film expecting some kind of bonus scene like most Marvel films, what I got was a stupid add telling me to go buy Green Lantern comics and graphic novels. BS DC, that isn't the type of thing I want to sit through ten minutes of credits for, at least the scene at the end of Avengers' credits was funny and plot relevant.

DC's biggest problem is that their characters, while super heroic, are just far too one-dimensional to ever translate well into live action. Green Lantern's biggest claim to fame, he's a glorified space cop with a super powerful thought controlled ring that lets him use green energy.

He isn't a multi-billonaire who built himself a lair under his mansion and fights crime in the dark and gritty mean streets of Gotham. He's not a victim of radioactive spider bite and he isn't a soldier trained and then made into a super Nazi fighting weapon.

I have always loved Batman because he really is the best DC has to offer. Superman has no true enemies that can stand against him, his greatest nemesis is an ordinary business man with delusions of grandeur.

And then there's the constant rebooting and infinite crisis stuff that rips apart the DC comics continuity for the sake of erasing the history of the characters that don't fit in with todays modern reader. OR to try and erase the clutter of too many writers introducing too many ideas that eventually lead nowhere.

If DC got their comic book universe in proper order and stopped trying to wipe it out of existence every so often to start fresh they might actually have some idea of how to properly translate their stories into Live-Action.

As it stands, the best interpretation of DC still to this day is the DCAU, and why is that? Surprise, surprise, it's all one continuity, it started off with Batman The Animated Series and it didn't try to erase itself from existence in favor of something better.

Young Justice is a good new series and one I've enjoyed for a time, but it is so difficult to catch the latest episodes on Teletoon that I've fallen behind with it due to airing oddities.

In the immortal words of the comic book letters page, when it comes to live-action super heroes in theatres, Make Mine Marvel.

I too prefer Marvel over DC, but a few of your statements seem distant from reality. Quantum is totally right about those Marvel films failing. Even if you liked them, that doesn't change the fact that they were almost all universally panned. Furthermore, Superman has several legitimately formidable enemies, not as many as Batman, but about as many as most superheroes. Zod, Brainiac, Doomsday

[Scrapper6]

Originally Posted by Nightscrabbler

I too prefer Marvel over DC, but a few of your statements seem distant from reality. Quantum is totally right about those Marvel films failing. Even if you liked them, that doesn't change the fact that they were almost all universally panned. Furthermore, Superman has several legitimately formidable enemies, not as many as Batman, but about as many as most superheroes. Zod, Brainiac, Doomsday

I'm sorry, but what about those films was panned by general movie going audiences? I don't care how comic book nerds felt about the movie, they(we) complain about anything and everything, and I certainly don't care what critics say because they often just pander to the lowest common denominator in most cases. They've really criticized harshly a buch of movies that I and my family have found more enjoyable than the critics could say.

I'll grant you Daredevil was a real mess, but that was the fault of trying to cram an overarching storyline into an hour and a half movie. I think Daredevil would have been a lot better if they'd kept things simple, rather than introduce Elektra right out of the gate they should have stuck with a proper origin story for Daredevil, had the Kingpin feature and MAYBE bring in Bullseye as someone for Daredevil to fight.

Trying to adapt the entire Frank Miller run in less than two hours was just plain foolish.

And was Fantastic Four really that bad? I mean it has its flaws, perhaps some of the biggest ones being how they handled Doctor Doom and Galactus, but the storyline was simple and introduced the concept of the FF to the movie going public nicely enough.

Punisher... I'm sorry what was wrong with those two films? The original one I only just managed to see recently on T-V, but I went to see the soft-reboot sequel in theatres and it sure looked and felt like a Punisher movie to me.

And just what is wrong with the Ghost Rider movies? I liked both of them and I don't think they were really that awful considering the source material they have to work with.

I am not 'distant from reality' I simply have different tastes and am not hard-core comic book nerd that demans the Marvel movies be EXACTLY like the comics. I also own and cherish Spider-Man 3 for doing its best to work within the confines of a world where too many outside interfering individuals felt that they could improve the movie. Seriously, if the studio executives over at Columbia hadn't been so hands on with the 3rd film and let Sam Raimi do what he wanted without forcing him to introduce the character of Venom (a character he freely admits he doesn't like) that third film could have blown the first two out of the water.

And yes, Superman may have more enemies than jsut the one, but Lex Luthor is the one villain that DC and WB seem to focus on whenever making a Superman film/television show. It was only during the Superman Animated Series that we got to see some of those other villains, and quite frankly if you want to re-introduce the Man of Steel to a modern audiecnes you can't do that by just thrusting the likes of Darkseid or Zod into the equation without first telling Supes origin story properly. And the origin story goes hand in hand with Lex Luthor. Because Lex is to Superman what Joker is to Batman.

[Nightscrabbler]

Again, the fact that you or your family enjoyed them changes nothing... I'm not criticizing your tastes, I didn't even see most of them. Just look at the ratings on movie websites. You can look at the ratings from both critics (who I'm sure are all too harsh) and the general public and you'll see what people thought of them. You can argue in favour of the films, but to suggest that Quantum is "dead wrong" because of your own opinion is pretty silly.

[Scrapper6]

Originally Posted by Nightscrabbler

Again, the fact that you or your family enjoyed them changes nothing... I'm not criticizing your tastes, I didn't even see most of them. Just look at the ratings on movie websites. You can look at the ratings from both critics (who I'm sure are all too harsh) and the general public and you'll see what people thought of them. You can argue in favour of the films, but to suggest that Quantum is "dead wrong" because of your own opinion is pretty silly.

And there is where we have the problem. The 'Dead Wrong' comment was directed towards his comment about how everyone wants to see a movie based on Superman or The Flash or Insert DC Character Name Here. The only people who Really want to see a film based on their favorite DC hero are DC Comic Book nerds, I mean Green Lantern's film sales and box office reciets can attest to that.

I never said he was wrong about the Marvel stuff, I just don't see them as being that hated as everyone seems to claim. Maybe because I don't frequent those sites you mentioned, and also, how do we know that the people panning it on those sites aren't comic book readers/fans?

[Sun Swipe Prime]

Originally Posted by Scrapper6

I'm sorry, but you're just dead wrong, none of the people in the general public care enough about Superman or The Flash or Green Lantern to want to see a movie about them.

If nobody is interested in Superman then why has he consistently had a live TV presence pretty much the last three decades: Smalliville, Lois and Clark, Superboy? This is not even counting the animated shows and movies. If there's no interest then there's no money to be made, then why are Superman shows consistently being produced?

Before this recent string of Avengers tie-in movies. Who knew who Ironman was or Black Widow or Nick Fury, Thor, Captain America, The Hulk etc? Pretty much nobody outside of the comic nerd. The most famous of those was probably the Hulk because of the 70's tv show. And who outside of the comic nerd wanted movies made with them? Nobody.

Who cared about X-men before they made a good movie? Again nobody but the nerd. But once they made a bad one, nobody cared again. Then a good movie came out and people cared again.

Which IMHO shows is this. Make a good movie and they will come. Green Lantern was a shite movie that's why it failed, not because nobody cared about Green Lantern.

DC has some of the most recognizable Superheroes in all of pop culture and they're coming up short on all but one, Batman.

[sikkbones]

Originally Posted by Darth Cylon

WATCHMEN was an ambitious project, but noone other than the hard core fans would understand the story. In retrospect, while I enjoyed the movie, I'd rather see they spent the movie on making a high budget 12-part series on HBO or something.

the bouncing blue penis in almost every other scene didn't help either... esp. with the misaimed marketing....