Canadian Slag Episode 38 - Let the Battle be Joined

[Stapler]

Originally Posted by Protoman

Oh no no, it's not that. Let's not use that term...... the..... the "imports" of Micron, Superlink and Galaxy Force had scenes cut, scripts altered, genders swapped, names (and thus characters) changed, and most of all, have the "after dub" process. While not all anime shows have pre-dub as part of the process, Gonzo Animation that did Galaxy Force is very strict about using pre-dub for their productions (and thus why Galaxy Force had the most bad ass GAR of the 3)

Okay, I think I get what you're saying, bud. But GAR? I'm sure I know what that is but I can't place it for the life of me.

[Protoman]

Originally Posted by Stapler

Okay, I think I get what you're saying, bud. But GAR? I'm sure I know what that is but I can't place it for the life of me.

GAR is a term refering to the hot blooded nature found in some select mecha animes in Japan. It originated with Mazinger Z's Koiji Kabuto, was somewhat seen in the Getter series but it reach perfection in the title GaoGaiGar.

Do you feel it....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZRSv...feature=search

I know I do......... SHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

[UltraPrimal]

Beast Wars? Beast Wars?! What is this "Beast Wars" you speak of? When I was a kid, the show I watched was called "Beasties". Undoubtedly far superior than any "Beast Wars" knock off.

But seriously, great episode guys. Ironically, I was watching Beast Wars when I saw the new episode was posted.

One thing to say in the defense of the Flip-changers, and simple transformations everywhere, as a "puzzle", yes, it sucks. But as an action figure, focus on the action, it is great.

Imagine you are a kid playing with 2 Transformers figures making up your own battle between the characters as you go along. Let's say it's Terrorsaur and Rattrap. You can have Terrorsaur fly along, transform into robot mode, pull out his gun, take a couple shots at Rattrap, and then turn back into beast mode and circle around for another attack. Meanwhile Rattrap transforms and starts firing back at Terrorsaur. That whole thing may take, what, 1 or 2 minutes?

Now try the same thing with movie Bumblebee and Starscream. How long is it gonna take you? 2, 3, maybe 4 times as long? It doesn't have the same quick, fun, fluid action.

It's much more fun, from a play perspective, to have a transformer that can transform just as fast as they can in the cartoon.

[Robimus]

I'm going to be back becasue someone has to present a counter point to this hopeless, I love Cheetor, I wish Dinobot was my Daddy, gush fest of a Slag episode.

As someone who was not a wide eyed impressionable 12 year old when this came out maybe I can provide a different perspective.

I was an adult when this series came out, and while I didn't watch it religiously when it first aired I still followed it as best I could.

One of my favorite memories of Beast Wars was a New Years Eve that I unfortunatly had to work and thus didn't go out. YTV was showing a marathon that evening which I watched. I think it showed pretty much all of Season 1 that day(on a TV at work) and night.

The characters I enjoyed the most early on were Blackarchnia and Waspinator. Megatron was an awesome concept(one they later ruined with the advent of Transmetals, taking the perfect character and ruining him for marketiung reasons.). I also liked Prime well enough, and thought Rhinox was pretty badass.

Other characters like Scorponok and Terrorsuar did nothing for me and I found them both very one dimensional. Cheetor was the annoying "young guy" with tons of potential but prone to rash actions. Rattrap was annoying(still is), and Dinobot was far to holy for my tastes with his constant ranting about honor.

I could recognize the quality of the ongoing story, but it was difficult to really love everything that was happening when characters central to the plot didn't strike me in the way the writers wanted them too.

Maybe it was because I wasn't the target demographic, I dunno, but when one can't stand the character of Dinobot having him constantly appear on screen in a central role brings things down a little even if it is part of a well planned out series.

I hate the concept of Transmetals in general(as I touched upon earlier), surf boards and rocket propelled dinosaurs moved away from what I found neat about the original concept. Add that we had to have 3 different versions of both Prime and Megatron and I start to get a little dizzy.

See, the thing is, some concepts can't be improved upon. When the writers and artists created the perfection that was some of these characters to then turn around and try to make them better, well it effected my interest a great deal.

Beast Wars, in the course of telling its main story certainly has a lot more of an epic feel than Generation 1 ever did. I can see why people enjoy that about it, I somewhat enjoy that about, but in the end it kinda lacks variety for me.

We're never more than an episode or two away from a Cheetor or Dinobot or Rattrap centric episode because there is such a small character pool. When you don't really connect with the characters your not really in a rush to watch another episode all about them a week or two down the road.

Generation 1 wasn't designed that way. It was a series of smaller stories that didn't connect with each other in that constant fashion. That said it does have numerous smaller arcs that give the audience more bigger variety of stories featuring a varied amount of different characters and plot lines.

I guess one could say that Beast Wars is a bit more grown up than G1 is writing wise, yet in some ways it wasn't.

There are clearly some complex romantic story arcs in the series(Tigertron and Airrazor, Blackarchnia and Silverbolt), but it wasn't like G1 didn't have some similar ideas in a smaller sample size that didn't effect character arcs throughout the entire series.

I really can't say I enjoyed the love story between Blackarchnia and Silverbolt for instance, yet it had such a prominate place in the series that one really couldn't escape it.

Kinda like if The Girl Who Loved Powerglide was a recurring story that found its way into a dozen episodes instead of just one.

If you don't like The Girl Who Loved Powerglide is very easy to escape it. You can't do the same thing with some of these central arcs in Beast Wars.

Having rewatched Beast Wars in recent years some of the reasons I intially lost interest in the series in the 90's became apparent to me again.

It's animation does stand the test of time very well,( though I still don't think it compares with The Clone Wars in any way, shape or form on a pure visual level) and its one of those rare shows that will end up being timeless(which The Clone Wars will not) because of its amazing look, wealth of interesting characters, solid writing and atttention to detail(including continuity).

G1 in comparrison can stand against Beast Wars in its own way but it is a very different style of series which makes comparisons very difficult.

In a smaller sample size I feel like some the G1 story arcs were every bit as good as what Beast Wars gave us, but it didn't give us one central story for its entire run, which can have both positive and negative aspects to it.

Cetainly nostlagia ties me to G1 in a large way, but honestly if those stories and characters were all so poor I wouldn't still feel that way about them today.

And I think nostalgia plays a pretty large role in how fans rate their favorite series, but I don't think its really possible to state in a definitive manner that X is better than Y unless you can convince me that an Apple is somehow better than an Orange

There is a lot of subjectivity involved that stretches beyond nostalgia and involves everything from characterization to writing to presentation and more.

[Nocturn]

Originally Posted by Robimus

Ibut I don't think its really possible to state in a definitive manner that X is better than Y unless you can convince me that an Apple is somehow better than an Orange

Apple Preparation:
Rinse

Orange Preparation:
Peel

Apple Juice:
Apple Juice or Apple Juice

Orange Juice
No Pulp, Extra Pulp, added Calcium, blah blah blah

Yearly Apple Production
55 million tons

Yearly Orange Production
61.7 million tons

Ph of apples
Who cares, nothing burn-y going on here

Ph of oranges
2,5-3? AH GOD MY THROAT

On a scale of 1 to 10

How messy is it?
Apple: 5
Orange: 8

How close in proximity are they grown to seniors?
Apple: 2
Orange: 10

How much crap will get stuck in your teeth?
Apple: 4
Orange: 10

Good enough for ya?

[Stapler]

Originally Posted by Protoman

GAR is a term refering to the hot blooded nature found in some select mecha animes in Japan. It originated with Mazinger Z's Koiji Kabuto, was somewhat seen in the Getter series but it reach perfection in the title GaoGaiGar.

I get ya! Thanks for clearing that up, bud.

Anyway, for BW I always loved Rattrap. I loved his snarky personality and how he would grudgingly step up to put his talents to use. He wasn't a coward but a survivalist. And Dinobot wouldn't have been as interesting without Rattrap to interact with.

While it's clear as day that BW has the better story telling, I feel that it's a little unfair to hold that against G1. Western cartoons were done differently back then. I like to dream about how the series would have been if the writers had the freedom with the series that they did for the movie. But always thought G1 had some great story telling for what it was. Five Faces of Darkness has always stuck out to me. Still not BW material but still some darn good stuff.

[keanu577]

Personally I think Animated is my favourite cause it's the series that got me into Transformers. And Beast Wars is second. But anyways idk my favourite episode but here are my favourite characters.

3. Silverbolt
2. Dinobot.
1. Rhinox.

[Nocturn]

Beast Wars was an exceptionally good show for it's time, while G1 was a, not bad, but just a show that was. It is on par with the other 80's cartoon heavyweights, but that's it, on par. It doesn't break ground or win awards but at the end of the day it does what it has to do, sell toys.

You can only determine the quality of a Transformers show against it's peers, because better technology will always win when comparing across decades.

This is why Beast Wars is the best Transformers show, because it was the only one that had something its Saturday morning mates didn't, it had a defining quality to it, a step above, per se.

If you're going to sit there and tell me G1 isn't just as cheesy as MOTU or GIJoe then yeah, I'm going to laugh at you. It was what it was and nothing more, and what it was, was the standard.

[TMIIWonkoNemises]

You boys are deceitful,luring me back to Post with two things that I love: Beast Wars and David Kaye.

So,how do I view Beast Wars?Well,Daniel pretty much summed up my feelings toward the series as a whole,but I still have a lot to say about it.

Beast Wars is my first Transformers series,and is still my favourite to this day.Though I didn't watch the Episodes as much when I was a kid,I was thankful that YTV aired it again when I understood the story.I watched it for nostalgia,but it quickly became more than that.

The animation was the main reason Beast Wars captured my interest for the first time.Being a fan of ReBoot,I was astonished by how much work and effort came in the animation,unaware that Mainframe were slowly becoming pioneers,developers,and patrons of CG animation.I can still remember how mesmerized the first time I saw Dinobot's Transformation in 'Beast Wars: Part 2' (Never saw the first Episode the first time,as my brother was being born that day).Since then,the animation continued to become more advanced by late Season I and onward,and although we had to wait months between each Season the first time,it was worth every day waiting.The software,the time,effort,research,and passion of every Mainframe animator,their directors,and producers,especially Gavin Blair,Phil Mitchell,and Ian Pearson was seen,re-seen,and will continue to be seen by old and new Fans.Millions spent well.

The writing was the main reason my interest was captured the second time I watched Beast Wars.It wasn't until the Episode 'Maximal,No More' that I gained interest in learning the writers' names,and those who worked on Beast Wars.When I saw 'Code of Hero' for the first time in 2005,it was the first time where I was moved and heartbroken based on the writing of Ian Weir,and the involvement of Larry DiTillo and Bob Forward in this Episode.Afterwards,when watching 'The Agenda',it inspired to start writing,including ideas of the overall Transformers universe,some that still need to be written today.The pens of those who developed these characters,the stories,the settings,and everything in between was another pedestal of the golden age of 90s cartoons,where intelligent writing was a requirement...not a privilege as it is nowadays.

Last but not least,are the voice actors involved.Those chosen have created characters,created emotion,and were the vocal representatives of the writers',animators',and composer's work.Eighteen voice actors in total worked on Beast Wars,and each of them performed not as they were working on a cartoon,but as if it where a play or a film.Of all the cartoons I watched,the animated movies I seen,this series were one of the few who chosen a careful and successful group of actors,who brought their hearts,souls,and voices to a young franchise for the ears of a new generation to hear in mornings or evenings.From David Kaye's monologues,to Garry Chalk's speeches,to Scott McNeil's versatile dialogue and many,many more,I learned their names and their work,and am fans of each and every one of them.They are as much as a part of my childhood as all other things outside the Fandom.

One of the last things Daniel mentioned pretty much hit the nail on the head.Beast Wars was one of the members of the golden age in the animation industry.I was fortunate to be born in that golden age,but was never exposed to it afterwards.Although today's cartoons are coming back to what 90s cartoons were,it lacked the drive that was very evident 20 years ago.I believed that after Beast Machines,all Transformers series were to have the same quality of writing and voice acting.Animated was close and had potential,and there may never be a series that can exceed Beast Wars,but it is possible one will be in par with it.Though Anime has filled the void in writing,I still vie for original Canadian cartoons.There aren't that many,and none have the captivation that Mainframe did so many years ago.I think Prince Pyrus from Shadow Raiders said it best about the passion that has been put to each Mainframe creation; 'This universe will never know your like again'.

Favourite Characters: Dinobot,Transmetal II Dinobot (Count him as a separate character),Tarantulas.

Favourite Episode: The Agenda (All three parts,III being a personal favourite),Coming of the Fuzors (Both parts,I especially),and The Nemesis,Part I.

Moving on...

The David Kaye interview...well,considering that I heard and read many interviews of this wonderful,handsome voice actor....this is one of the lacking ones.The only thing that I didn't know that he was doing promos for Jimmy Kimmel.The little interview with the characters is something that isn't new to previous interviews that I heard,though Kaye was being humorous,kind of wish the questions were more creative instead of the general questions we all ask.Also,not sure if I'm right,but it seems that this interview was really constrained on time,knowing that David couldn't stay after TFCon ends,so I ask,was this done on Saturday or Sunday morning?

Oh,and where was the request where David's Prime was supposed to say 'Put it on my chest Sam'?Swore that was going to happen.

Nothing to say on the other segments,but thanks for giving me knowledge on some Beast Wars toys I should check out.

A pretty solid Podcast guys.Thanks for luring me back in.

[CobraCommander]

I remember watching the first few eps. of Beasties when it first aired, but couldn't get into it at the time. I think I was just used to seeing vehicular alt modes and didn't really like the idea of robot/animals. On second thought, I think I was just busy chasing skirts. Anyways, I finally went back and watched the series about 2 years ago and I enjoyed it, so much that I bought all the characters on the show. But then I watched Beastmachines and that really was painful, I dunno if it was the terrible soundtrack, the fugly techno-organic designs or the story that seemed to drag on?

I don't remember the show names, so here's my top 3 characters;

Ravage
Starscream (or at least his ghost)
Optimus Prime (stasis mode)